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Архіви Форумів Майдану

беспорядки в Греції були розроблені іноземними операми(l)

01/27/2009 | Сергій Кабуд
Interview: Riots in Greece
Ioannis Michaletos
15 Dec 2008

The following interview was presented to the newspaper "Polska Times", and the deputy opinion editor Tomasz Pompowski, regarding the recent riots in Greece

http://www.analyst-network.com/article.php?art_id=2653




The Article in Polish: www.polskatimes.pl/opinie/69446,zamieszki-w-grecji-byly-sterowane,id,t.html






Could you analyze important aspects of present street battles in Athens?



1) The street battles are the worst Athens has ever experienced, although it is a city with rather frequent clashes with the police.

Important characteristics include the rapid mobilization of the rioters. For example they were out in the streets destroying property in just 20-25 minutes after the death of the young person was announced. It happened in 21.03, it was first announced in a website around 21:30 and the riots were already swinging at 22:00. I have served in the Navy but I don't think armed forces are that quick in mobilizing their personnel!

Over the coming days, the rioters that numbered between 1,500-2,000 people (30% of those immigrants-mostly Muslim), were able to move from one part of the city to another in a quick way using a variety of methods, such as public transportation in small groups, motorcycles or even riding taxis alone and gathering in a specific "meeting place".

Lastly, they used extensively the internet, mobile phones and instant messaging services to alert against police and gather information of what the media were transmitting. In a few words they were trained in a fashion that distinct them from the usual "Athenian rioters". They seemed to have international experience and plenty of hideouts within the city centre.










What is your assessment of unrest in Greece?


2) I think it was a mixture of social disappointment, aftershocks of the global economic crisis coupled with foreign involvement and Greek tradition in extrovert activities such as taking out in the streets for a number of reasons! For the moment although it is a bit early to tell, I think that foreign involvement played a big part in making these riots last long and create big damages.







How would you describe those street fighting?


3) During the first two days, the street fighting was intense, although the police had orders not to use violence in order to calm things down. The rioters had plenty of molotov bombs, heavy sticks, stones and other heavy equipment and were targeting specific items in the city: Shops and cars. Public buildings were not hurt especially due to police protection and that shows that the rioters were very much concerned of not get caught and "become heroes". They were more interested in creating damage, rather than attacking a public building to present a political message but having also the risk of being arrested. The last two days the police took more action against them and they disappeared. This is a typical urban guerrilla way of fighting; avoid confrontation and strike when least expected, always in a very fast mode. There was looting involved but it was not done by the rioters but by other elements that exploited the situation. Therefore the rioters were not seeking immediate financial gains, nor did they want to make a political pronouncement. Their aim was to inspire fear.








Do you know how they started?


4) They started immediately after the Greek Indymedia website posted the news of the death of the young boy, with phrases such as «Revenge for the dead" "Police should pay now" "Everybody out in the streets". As I said that happened les than 30 minutes after the incident. It is interesting to note that the national TV learned of the killing only after the first rioters took out in the streets. According to unverified information, the local media were informed of the whole incident by the rioters that called them with their mobiles as soon as they were marching out in the streets.








Do we have any reason to say about foreign involvement in sustaining those street battles?



5) The rioters were trained, disciplined and in a fighting mood for 3 days; and another 2 days with less stamina though. This is not a typical Greek group and I would say not typical of any country if one takes into account that the rioters were not replenishing their numbers but were the same people more or less for the whole period.

Secondly, after the riots broke out in Athens, almost simultaneously riots begun in all major Greek cities with the same style. Next day, almost 50 Greek cities were experiencing street battles and the following incident was reported were groups of people were moving from a city to city to start a riot for a few hours and then moving to the next one. Also in one city, named Kozani, groups of people that started the riots came from Athens, rented a hotel room and took the streets the next day. So we have people that are coordinated, able to control their "anger" and expose it with ferocity when needed. I would call them "urban guerrillas-mercenaries". There were reliable estimations by police circles over the past few months, that something is "happening" in the Greek radical scene and there are evidence that Greek NGO's collaborate with foreign ones by bringing volunteers in Greece from abroad, which in reality turn out to be radicals-anarchists. So a web of relations has been developed between Greek radicals and foreign ones. In that sense a provocation or the involvement of foreign intelligence apparatus it is not improbable judging by the recent European history.










Why Greece became a target of that attack?



6) My point of view is that Greece is the "weakest link" of the Eurozone, and I am not talking only from an economic point of view. It is Europe's gateway to the Middle East; its neighbour Turkey is a large country with explosive social problems and on its Northern borders it is accustomed into coexisting with the Balkan insecurity of Albania-Kosovo and so on. Therefore should Greece is destabilized it will create problem to Brussels that will loose contact with the all important East Mediterranean region and the Balkan politics will suffer a great deal of insecurity as well.

Moreover Greece is an ideal base for anyone wishing to enter EU for ill purposes. A strong Greek security system deters the flow of drugs, illegal immigration and terrorists into Europe. A destabilized Greece along with the already dysfunctional state of affairs in the Balkans will cause a number of security issues for the whole of Europe.









Who organized that fighting?


7) The culprits in first sight are the leaders of the anarchist-radical networks in Europe. Greek radicals are an important part of the European networks along with their "comrades" in Italy, France and Spain the so-called Mediterranean networks. The other elements to be found are based in Germany and UK. The former provided human resources and the latter have already organized the so-called "Antifa" groups in Athens.

So we have a Pan-European network, which is to an extent under the surveillance of the European intelligence services. So my rough estimation is that no operation and preparation could have been implemented if some international officers were not involved.

Also if one adds the question "Cui bono?" in the long-term...the answer could perfectly be: The terrorist networks based already in the Middle East trying to find ways to establish firm roots in a Eurozone country. They have already managed to do so in Bosnia, Kosovo to an extent but Greece is a gateway to Brussels in all senses.

I have to note that many analysts here in Greece believe that the USA Intel. Services were involved due to the recent business deals the government made with Russia, China, Germany and France. I think this is not feasible, but it cannot be excluded that private intelligence firms based in USA could have offered consultation or information. Of course this is another facet of globalization and doesn't involve Washington with which Greece cooperates strongly in many important fields.









How a country can defend itself against such destabilization?


8) The Greek national security is symmetrical and the rioters used asymmetrical warfare. The have done it elsewhere and the issue is that Greece doesn't have the mentality of coping with this kind of opponents. It never had urban guerrillas or experienced the existence of powerful organized crime groups=mafias. Therefore it will take time until new agencies will be created or the old ones figure out ways to understand how their opponents think and most importantly what do they want to achieve...which is basically destroy the way of life as we know it. I would call them the extreme angle of the postmodernist movement.












What weak sides of national security were exploited by organizers of those attacks?


9) The weakest side was I think the disinformation and psychological warfare one. The Greek police do not have the ability to use such techniques and deter any "Opponent". It relies only in the traditional police operation methods and it is not capable of penetrating effectively the groups of the radicals. In a broader sense, Greece is gradually coming into terms with the changing global environment after 9/11 2001 which calls for agile and asymmetrical police forces to counteract against threats such as radical anarchism, Islamic terrorism and translational organized crime. Although a lot have been improved, the geopolitical placement of the country right beside the explosive Middle East-Turkey-North Africa and the Balkans will make the issue more and more pressing in the future.









You wrote about Paris attacks pattern used in Greece riots. You also mentioned proximity of Turkey.. In Paris there was an Islamic element involved.. Do you think that we can say that such situation may take place in Greece?




10) think in general terms that the recent riots was a "Prova generale" for what will come in the future. In the current riots the Muslim element was embed with the rest of the protesters. But in the fuure they will definitely stage their own riots...once they learn the know-how of operations.

So in a few words, the religion element was not significant but it is increasing. The current riots are the turning point from an era of political demonstration to one associated with immigration issues.

Відповіді

  • 2009.01.27 | Сергій Кабуд

    якщо хто вміє непонашому: як створили беспорядки в Греції

    якщо хто вміє непонашому: піднімаю. стаття про створення беспоря

    беспорядків в греції

    дуже корисно почитати бо це методи які будуть застосовані в Україні
  • 2009.01.27 | Володимир I

    Re: беспорядки в Греції були розроблені іноземними операми(l)

    Сергію, цей грек явно не володіє питанням і дає поверхові відповіді. А на запитання "Кому вигідно?" теж відповідає "взагалі". Виходячи з уроків історії та сьогодення на це питання можна відповісти так: дестабілізація Європи зокрема та світу взагалі вигідна ісламістам та кремлядям, які, напевне, тісно кооперуються в цьому аспекті. А цей грек трохи несповна розуму, бо ще посилається на якихось аналітиків, котрі припускають причетність спецслужб США, хоча й приватних, які надавали коонсультації чи інформацію. Маячня якась.
    згорнути/розгорнути гілку відповідей
    • 2009.01.27 | Хвізик

      Re: беспорядки в Греції були розроблені іноземними операми(l)

      Володимир I пише:
      > Сергію, цей грек явно не володіє питанням і дає поверхові відповіді. А на запитання "Кому вигідно?" теж відповідає "взагалі". Виходячи з уроків історії та сьогодення на це питання можна відповісти так: дестабілізація Європи зокрема та світу взагалі вигідна ісламістам та кремлядям, які, напевне, тісно кооперуються в цьому аспекті. А цей грек трохи несповна розуму, бо ще посилається на якихось аналітиків, котрі припускають причетність спецслужб США, хоча й приватних, які надавали коонсультації чи інформацію. Маячня якась.
      згоден. іменно ці самі пункти мені не сподобалися в даній статті.
      згорнути/розгорнути гілку відповідей
      • 2009.01.27 | Сергій Кабуд

        я думаю вони бояться казати прямо. Грек може бути вбитий

        це матеріал так би мовити ДЯЛ тих хто розуміє

        подача його Помповским- це сигнал.
        згорнути/розгорнути гілку відповідей
        • 2009.01.27 | Хвізик

          Re: я думаю вони бояться казати прямо. Грек може бути вбитий

          Сергій Кабуд пише:
          > це матеріал так би мовити ДЯЛ тих хто розуміє
          >
          > подача його Помповским- це сигнал.
          можливо.
          але той, хто НЕ розуміє, понесеться по світу розказувати байки про "приватні американські спецслужби"
          згорнути/розгорнути гілку відповідей
          • 2009.01.27 | Сергій Кабуд

            саме на кінці беспорядків Москва провела спільні маневри

            маневри в греції , флот
            згорнути/розгорнути гілку відповідей
            • 2009.01.27 | Хвізик

              Re: саме на кіонці беспорядків Москва провела спільні маневри

              Сергій Кабуд пише:
              > маневри в греції , флот
              такі речі мало хто помічає. лиш конспірологи, такі як Ти, і, значно рідше, я
              згорнути/розгорнути гілку відповідей
              • 2009.01.27 | Сергій Кабуд

                в жж навіть карти присутності флоту вже вішали

                люди стежать

                в районі Ізраілю там всюди військові всіх країн зараз

                навколо Аравійського півостріва, від Сомалі до Ірану і в Красному Морі


                Війсєкову присутність в Грузії бачили не лише конспірологи а й Саакашвілі верещав теж;

                але політики на заході куплені теж чи егоісти

                це все їм вилізе КОЖНОМУ
      • 2009.01.27 | Сергій Кабуд

        Червоненко казав: труіла МАФІЯ а не уряд РФ- ні уряд ніколи !!

        але уряд згадав.

        та ну це бандити серєозні, тут все ясно
    • 2009.01.27 | Сергій Кабуд

      так. цікаво що подав це Помповскі- поляк ДУЖЕ в ТЕМІ

      з чисeльними звязками всюди в світі(!)

      Найквіст називав Помповского- одним з своїх вчителів. Точніше всіх людей з Fighting Solidarity

      http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Fighting_Solidarity

      Помповскі я так розумію один з стратегів підпільної Солідарності яка існує і зараз

      Власне це і є Underground Resistance

      світовий антикомунистичний фронт.
      ------------------------------------------------

      краще матеріала про грецію я не знайшов

      Може в вас є??????


      Ваші висновки всі поділяю
  • 2009.01.27 | Graymur

    Re: беспорядки в Греції були розроблені іноземними операми(l)

    хахаха, ну кто бы сомневался))))
  • 2009.01.27 | alfy_new

    Re: беспорядки в Греції були розроблені іноземними операми(l)

    100%, грек правий. І підтвердженням цьому є російський флот біля берегів Греції, який з'явився наприкінці заворушень. Росіяни останнім часом намагаються діяти у відповідь після кроків США. Мета США очевидна-не допустити поширення впливу Євросоюзу на Схід, який останнім часом поширюється. Європа стає сильним гравцем і конкурентом американцям.


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