Відповіді

• 2002.11.07 | ilia25

  Як це було

  QUESTION: Ukrainian President Kuchma has now asked the UN to look into -- the Secretary Council to look into this sale that the US and British have been investigating. Do you support that? Do you see any utility in that?
  
  MR. BOUCHER: We don't see that a separate investigation by the United Nations would be particularly productive. And certainly if the Ukrainian Government had wanted to clarify matters fully, they could have done so with the US and the UK team that went out there.
  
  We found the cooperation mixed when we were out there. We found very good cooperation on some issues such as technical information on Kolchuga sites in Ukraine, but not on others such as the events surrounding President Kuchma's authorization of the transfer.
  
  In addition, our team concluded the government of Ukraine's export control process doesn't have sufficient safeguards to prevent senior officials or entities from misusing state organs and/or bypassing export controls.
  
  They failed to provide our teams, our US/UK team, with satisfactory evidence that the transfer to Iraq did or could not have taken place. So the question is still open. If they had wanted to answer it they could have answered while our team was there. We've asked them follow-up questions now, which they have not responded to. So, frankly, you know, a UN team -- what would that do that hasn't been available to them already?
  
  QUESTION: Have you heard any reaction amongst the Council members, or are they otherwise engaged?
  
  MR. BOUCHER: I don't know that there's been any. I haven't seen any reaction in public.
  
  QUESTION: -- these follow-up questions for weeks?
  
  MR. BOUCHER: No, just the other day. When did we announce we had given the -- yesterday we gave them the report.
  
  QUESTION: Well, wait a second --
  
  QUESTION: So how long -- I mean, are you angry that they haven't responded within less than 24 hours of when you posed these questions? Are they easy yes-or-no questions?
  
  MR. BOUCHER: No, I'm just noting that they have not responded. They had ample opportunity to tell us all kinds of information while the teams were there. They have another opportunity now. So we don't see much point in talking -- suddenly raising the prospect of a UN team.
  
  QUESTION: Right. No, no, no. But you are willing, before you decide in your overall policy, you're going to wait until -- to see -- give them sufficient --
  
  MR. BOUCHER: Answers or, eventually, lack of answers, will have to be factored in. But no, we're not saying you missed your deadline.
  
  QUESTION: Then can I just ask -- I know that you're going to say that this is apples and oranges. But why didn't -- why -- when you first announced -- or when it was first announced that you had authenticated the audiotape in which President Kuchma authorized the sale of this, you immediately suspended some aid to Ukraine. I'm not -- why hasn't the United States done a similar thing in the case of Yugoslavia and Bosnia, where there were perhaps not presidential authorizations of transfers, but there were certainly high-level government authorizations?
  
  MR. BOUCHER: If you remember what I said about the transfers that had taken place from -- what was it? -- YugoImport and a company in Bosnia, Bosnia-Herzegovina somewhere -- we had said that there had been steps taken by the authorities to close down offices of the corporations, to, I think, fire people. They had instituted new systems of controls.
  
  And we did, in fact, change the way that some of our assistance was being provided. So I think we've taken a lot of steps. And, basically, the difference is we got cooperation and disclosure by the governments involved to make sure that this sort of thing was understood and didn't happen again.
  
  QUESTION: Those steps were taken after the -- you and NATO came out and said that these transfers had taken place. And in the case of Ukraine, you're not even sure the transfer took place.
  
  MR. BOUCHER: But we're sure that the authorization was given for the transfer.
  
  QUESTION: Okay. But here you have, in the other cases, of transferring weapons -- banned military items to Iraq -- proved that this stuff was actually delivered.
  
  MR. BOUCHER: All it seems to me you're doing is pointing out the many differences between the two situations. It is apples and oranges and pears and tangerines.
  
  QUESTION: So you don't want to try and explain why you reacted so harshly immediately against the Ukrainians and not against the --
  
  MR. BOUCHER: I think I explained why we acted in each case the way we did, and to try to say that you should have done this to that and that to this is -- it just doesn't work.
  
  QUESTION: I'm not saying you should have done anything. I'm just asking why you didn't.
  
  QUESTION: Change of subject?
  
  MR. BOUCHER: Andrea.
  
  QUESTION: Could you explain -- and, actually, Matt just touched upon it -- you obviously do have proof, you believe, that Kuchma authorized this, but you don't have conclusive proof that the delivery actually took place. Is that what you're trying to confirm with the Ukraines, whether or not, in fact, a piece of equipment, this radar equipment, actually left the warehouses and went into Iraq? Because doesn't that make a difference? I mean, Kuchma -- somebody can say go ahead and do it, and if they didn't execute the order, is he, you know, being penalized because he said something? I mean, is that what you're looking for is proof that, in fact, this delivery took place?
  
  MR. BOUCHER: I thought I made pretty clear that one of the main topics that we were interested in during the course of this visit was to get information that will allow us to conclude whether the transfer did not or did take place and whether it could not or could have taken place.
  
  We found many elements of the system involved that made it impossible to answer that question. We weren't given the amount of information that we would have expected to try to answer those questions. And we found a system that could be easily manipulated by senior officials so that controls would have been bypassed.
  
  So, yes, that is one of the principal questions we were looking at, and without the kind of cooperation we were looking for, we're not in a position yet to answer that question.
  
  On the second part of the question that you asked, I'd have to say that if we know that a senior official, the president of a country, made decisions to do this, we have to take that into account as we look at our relationship with that person and with that country.
  
  Judy.
  
  QUESTION: Change of subject?
  
  QUESTION: Last question on this. Have you ever said how useful these radar systems are to the Iraqis? Do they shift the balance of power in the no-fly zones?
  
  MR. BOUCHER: I have not been able to confirm -- I told you, as a government, we're not able to confirm whether the systems were actually delivered to Iraq and put into use in any particular way. So, at this point, I just can't say, can't draw any conclusions.
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  • 2002.11.07 | Step

    UN investigation could be more independent and

    the experts could find some dirty information not only about Ukraine, but also about US and Britain. There was information in one of the Kievan papers about the American enterprise mediation for the Ukrainians to sell some weapons to Croatia several years ago. If it happened, it would be a violation of UN sanctions as well.
    
    The commission of only US and UK experts would hardly intend to find something dirty for their governments. The independent experts could not follow the instructions from the US and UK governments strictly. The "punishment" show could fail.
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    • 2002.11.07 | ilia25

      США не потрібне "більш незалежне" розслідування

      Це не суд. Тому апеляції до презумпції невинності, чи вимагання "незалежного розслідування" нікого не цікавлять.
      
      Американці лише хочуть з"ясувати -- для себе, -- чи кинув їх Кучма, чи ні. І ніякі додаткові інспекції ООН їм у цьому не допоможуть.
      
      А коли американці для себе це питання з"ясують, вони повідомлять про свої висновки своїх партнерів по НАТО. Кому, ви думаєте, останні повірять -- США з Великобританією, чи Кучмі?
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      • 2002.11.07 | Step

        Re: Ce nagaduje povedinku mongola u kyjevsjkomu ulusi,

        todi navishjo nam obyraty jakusj vladu, jakshjo nasha vlada u Wash chy Lon? Gra v demokratiju?
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        • 2002.11.07 | ilia25

          Америка вільна сама визначати свое ставлення до України

          Step пише:
          > todi navishjo nam obyraty jakusj vladu, jakshjo nasha vlada u Wash chy Lon? Gra v demokratiju?
          
          Наша влада на Банковій, і обираємо ми її собі самі. А яким чином, за якими критеріями Америка визначає свое ставлення до цієї влади, -- це є внутрішні справи Америки. Американський уряд в цих питанях не є підзвітним нікому, окрім своїх виборців.
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          • 2002.11.07 | z pochatkom novoi holodnoi vijny (-). Step

            A, nu dobre, ce nagaduje Churchill'a u Fultoni, vitaju

  • 2002.11.07 | ilia25

    Переклад цікавого шматочку

    ПИТАННЯ: ... ці додаткові питання вже кілька тижднів?
    
    Пан БАУЧЕР: Ні, тільки з того дня. Коли ми оголосили, що передали ... вчора ми передали їм цю доповідь.
    
    ПИТАННЯ: Тоді, стривайте секунду ...
    
    ПИТАННЯ: То як довго ... я хочу сказати, чи ви роздратовані, що вони не дали вам відповіді за менш як 24 години з того часу, як ви задали ці питання? Чи це прості (так/ні) питання?
    
    Пан БАУЧЕР: Ні, я лише зауважую, що вони ще не відповіли. Вони мали багато можливостей розповісти нам всю інформацію доки группи експертів були там. Вони мають ще одну можливість зараз. Так що ми не бачимо багато сенсу в переговорах ... зненацька пропонуючи інспекції ООН.
    
    ПИТАННЯ: Добре. Ні, ні, ні. Але ви згодні, перед тим, як ви визначитесь щодо вашої загальної політики, ви почекаєте ... щоб побачити ... дати їм достатньо часу ...
    
    Пан БАУЧЕР: Відповіді, або, врешті решт, відсутність відповідей буде врахована. Але ні, ми не кажемо, що це вам вже запізно.

• 2002.11.07 | tmp

  США: Инициативы Украины... просто не имеют смысла (-)