LA Times: Controversy Widens Over Ukraine Tapes
12/16/2002 | AST
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http://www.latimes.com/news/nationworld/world/la-fg-tapes15dec15.story
THE WORLD
Controversy Widens Over Ukraine Tapes
A dispute has arisen about the origins of recordings implicating the president in a journalist's death and in arms sales to Iraq.
By Mary Mycio
Special to The Times
December 15 2002
KIEV, Ukraine -- KIEV, Ukraine -- Secret recordings of President Leonid D. Kuchma have led to the sharpest rift between Ukraine and the U.S. in a decade, after Washington accused him of approving the sale of military radar to Iraq.
A series of recordings, the first surfacing two years ago, has become Kuchma's political nightmare. The initial recordings implicated the president in the slaying of a journalist. Recordings of other incriminating conversations have since been released, most dealing with Kuchma's efforts to limit dissent.
This spring, recordings from the president's office appeared containing a conversation suggesting that he had approved the sale of Kolchuga radar systems to Iraq for $100 million. There is controversy about how the recordings were made.
Kuchma's reputation in the West was tainted by the disappearance of journalist Georgi Gongadze. However, the Bush administration's conclusion that the Kolchuga recordings are authentic -- followed by a report late last month from 13 U.S. and British investigators that there was a "credible possibility" that the radar deal occurred -- have caused a deep split between Ukraine and the U.S., its most powerful ally.
"There is no evidence on which [the U.S.] can base such unambiguous conclusions," Viktor Medvedchuk, Kuchma's administration chief, declared last month while arguing that the recordings were manipulated.
Former presidential bodyguard Mykola Melnichenko, who now lives in the U.S., contends that he secretly made digital recordings of the July 2000 Kolchuga conversation in Kuchma's office. He says he also recorded the tapes linking the president to Gongadze's disappearance in September 2000.
The Gongadze recordings, made public after the discovery of the journalist's headless corpse in November 2000, engulfed Kuchma in a scandal that weakened him at home, isolated him from the West and forced him to turn to Russia for support.
Since then, Melnichenko has been pilloried by the Kuchma camp and praised by the opposition -- and by many in the West.
But the former bodyguard's inconsistencies, together with the mysterious appearance early this year of hundreds of hours of additional recordings, are prompting a growing number of people -- including many of Kuchma's avowed foes -- to question the whistle-blower's claims about how he made the recordings and for what purpose. Melnichenko has become such a polarizing figure that Ukraine's few remaining nonpartisan journalists use pseudonyms when they take issue with his story.
"I would lose contacts with opposition politicians and journalists if they knew it was me," said a Kiev reporter, who used a pseudonym on a recent article on the recordings. "Everyone thinks journalists have to take sides. So if you question Melnichenko, you must be a Kuchma apologist."
As a result, Melnichenko's story has not been seriously scrutinized. He often has refused to answer questions, and his public statements have been inconsistent. He declined to be interviewed for this article.
For more than a year, Melnichenko maintained that he had recorded Kuchma with a Toshiba DMR-SX1 digital recorder hidden under a couch in the president's office and had acted alone with no goal but to bring the Ukrainian leader to justice. This summer, however, Melnichenko announced that he had used several different recorders and had tapes of Kuchma speaking at the president's country residence and in a sauna.
The new version of events came after Oleksandr Zhyr, an outspoken Kuchma critic and the former chief of a parliamentary commission set up to investigate the Gongadze case, said he was in possession of hundreds of hours of recordings.
Previously, Melnichenko submitted to the commission about 45 hours of presidential conversations on two compact discs, though he has refused to say who made the copies. Copies are widely available, and their contents are on a Harvard Web site: www.wcfia.harvard.edu/academy/melnychenko.
The CDs purportedly contain the complete digital recordings of the Gongadze conversations. The talks were scattered over several months and were spliced together with a computer program called Sound Forge for a continuous recording of episodes dealing with the missing journalist.
Zhyr's revelation suggests that Melnichenko may not have been the only one with access to recordings. Yuri Shvets, a Washington-based attorney working with Zhyr to disseminate what he says are 700 hours of recordings dating from October 1999 on a Web site www.5element.net, insisted in a telephone interview that he did not get them from Melnichenko. "We got them in Ukraine. And Melnichenko got them from us," he said.
Shvets, Zhyr and Melnichenko are former KGB agents.
Zhyr, who is in Ukraine, is vague about the recordings' origins, though he says there probably are more to come. Because the Toshiba automatically notes the date and time of a recording, it is evident that chunks of time are missing, he said.
A lot of what is on the new collection of recordings duplicates the material on the CDs. But there are many new episodes -- including the Kolchuga deal.
In that conversation, Kuchma allegedly tells Valery Malev, then in charge of Ukraine's arms exports, to go ahead with a $100-million sale of three Kolchuga radars to Iraq. The Kolchuga is a passive radar that gives out no signals of its own and thus isn't detected by aircraft.
The new collection has led to some bizarre conflicts. In August, when a Ukrainian Web site ran a transcript provided by Shvets that detailed Kuchma purportedly discussing espionage against foreign embassies, Melnichenko successfully asked that it be removed and that the media not publish transcripts without his authentication.
He then produced his own transcripts of the Gongadze conversations and declared them the sole authentic versions. But Ukrainian journalist Olexi Stepura, who has prepared painstaking transcripts of the purported originals on the 45-hour CDs, contends that Melnichenko's transcripts were of the recordings edited by the Sound Forge program, which removed entire sentences from the original recordings.
None of the edits deal with Gongadze, but Stepura says: "They do suggest that Melnichenko has not listened to the recordings and is unaware of the discrepancies."
But the evidence showing that Melnichenko is not in exclusive control of Kuchma recordings and that other, more mysterious sources are releasing them raises doubts about his account. Though many people found it possible to believe that one person could record 45 hours with a device hidden under a couch, the existence of 700 hours suggests a much more complex operation.
Shvets is blunt about the logistics. "Melnichenko may have done some recordings himself toward the end of the operation," he said. "But an entire team had to be involved in this, and they had to have high political protection."
He says certain Ukrainian oligarchs spearheaded the operation to blackmail Kuchma for their own ends. "But things got out of control, and we got the recordings," he said.
The situation has become so convoluted that parliamentary speaker Volodymyr Lytvyn early last month became the first high-ranking Ukrainian official to call for all of the recordings to be made public.
"There are political forces in Ukraine who don't want the truth to be known," Lytvyn, whose voice figures in the recordings, told BBC. "But we need to hear about everyone who was in the president's office -- those who were in power and those that were secretly influencing them."
http://www.latimes.com/news/nationworld/world/la-fg-tapes15dec15.story
THE WORLD
Controversy Widens Over Ukraine Tapes
A dispute has arisen about the origins of recordings implicating the president in a journalist's death and in arms sales to Iraq.
By Mary Mycio
Special to The Times
December 15 2002
KIEV, Ukraine -- KIEV, Ukraine -- Secret recordings of President Leonid D. Kuchma have led to the sharpest rift between Ukraine and the U.S. in a decade, after Washington accused him of approving the sale of military radar to Iraq.
A series of recordings, the first surfacing two years ago, has become Kuchma's political nightmare. The initial recordings implicated the president in the slaying of a journalist. Recordings of other incriminating conversations have since been released, most dealing with Kuchma's efforts to limit dissent.
This spring, recordings from the president's office appeared containing a conversation suggesting that he had approved the sale of Kolchuga radar systems to Iraq for $100 million. There is controversy about how the recordings were made.
Kuchma's reputation in the West was tainted by the disappearance of journalist Georgi Gongadze. However, the Bush administration's conclusion that the Kolchuga recordings are authentic -- followed by a report late last month from 13 U.S. and British investigators that there was a "credible possibility" that the radar deal occurred -- have caused a deep split between Ukraine and the U.S., its most powerful ally.
"There is no evidence on which [the U.S.] can base such unambiguous conclusions," Viktor Medvedchuk, Kuchma's administration chief, declared last month while arguing that the recordings were manipulated.
Former presidential bodyguard Mykola Melnichenko, who now lives in the U.S., contends that he secretly made digital recordings of the July 2000 Kolchuga conversation in Kuchma's office. He says he also recorded the tapes linking the president to Gongadze's disappearance in September 2000.
The Gongadze recordings, made public after the discovery of the journalist's headless corpse in November 2000, engulfed Kuchma in a scandal that weakened him at home, isolated him from the West and forced him to turn to Russia for support.
Since then, Melnichenko has been pilloried by the Kuchma camp and praised by the opposition -- and by many in the West.
But the former bodyguard's inconsistencies, together with the mysterious appearance early this year of hundreds of hours of additional recordings, are prompting a growing number of people -- including many of Kuchma's avowed foes -- to question the whistle-blower's claims about how he made the recordings and for what purpose. Melnichenko has become such a polarizing figure that Ukraine's few remaining nonpartisan journalists use pseudonyms when they take issue with his story.
"I would lose contacts with opposition politicians and journalists if they knew it was me," said a Kiev reporter, who used a pseudonym on a recent article on the recordings. "Everyone thinks journalists have to take sides. So if you question Melnichenko, you must be a Kuchma apologist."
As a result, Melnichenko's story has not been seriously scrutinized. He often has refused to answer questions, and his public statements have been inconsistent. He declined to be interviewed for this article.
For more than a year, Melnichenko maintained that he had recorded Kuchma with a Toshiba DMR-SX1 digital recorder hidden under a couch in the president's office and had acted alone with no goal but to bring the Ukrainian leader to justice. This summer, however, Melnichenko announced that he had used several different recorders and had tapes of Kuchma speaking at the president's country residence and in a sauna.
The new version of events came after Oleksandr Zhyr, an outspoken Kuchma critic and the former chief of a parliamentary commission set up to investigate the Gongadze case, said he was in possession of hundreds of hours of recordings.
Previously, Melnichenko submitted to the commission about 45 hours of presidential conversations on two compact discs, though he has refused to say who made the copies. Copies are widely available, and their contents are on a Harvard Web site: www.wcfia.harvard.edu/academy/melnychenko.
The CDs purportedly contain the complete digital recordings of the Gongadze conversations. The talks were scattered over several months and were spliced together with a computer program called Sound Forge for a continuous recording of episodes dealing with the missing journalist.
Zhyr's revelation suggests that Melnichenko may not have been the only one with access to recordings. Yuri Shvets, a Washington-based attorney working with Zhyr to disseminate what he says are 700 hours of recordings dating from October 1999 on a Web site www.5element.net, insisted in a telephone interview that he did not get them from Melnichenko. "We got them in Ukraine. And Melnichenko got them from us," he said.
Shvets, Zhyr and Melnichenko are former KGB agents.
Zhyr, who is in Ukraine, is vague about the recordings' origins, though he says there probably are more to come. Because the Toshiba automatically notes the date and time of a recording, it is evident that chunks of time are missing, he said.
A lot of what is on the new collection of recordings duplicates the material on the CDs. But there are many new episodes -- including the Kolchuga deal.
In that conversation, Kuchma allegedly tells Valery Malev, then in charge of Ukraine's arms exports, to go ahead with a $100-million sale of three Kolchuga radars to Iraq. The Kolchuga is a passive radar that gives out no signals of its own and thus isn't detected by aircraft.
The new collection has led to some bizarre conflicts. In August, when a Ukrainian Web site ran a transcript provided by Shvets that detailed Kuchma purportedly discussing espionage against foreign embassies, Melnichenko successfully asked that it be removed and that the media not publish transcripts without his authentication.
He then produced his own transcripts of the Gongadze conversations and declared them the sole authentic versions. But Ukrainian journalist Olexi Stepura, who has prepared painstaking transcripts of the purported originals on the 45-hour CDs, contends that Melnichenko's transcripts were of the recordings edited by the Sound Forge program, which removed entire sentences from the original recordings.
None of the edits deal with Gongadze, but Stepura says: "They do suggest that Melnichenko has not listened to the recordings and is unaware of the discrepancies."
But the evidence showing that Melnichenko is not in exclusive control of Kuchma recordings and that other, more mysterious sources are releasing them raises doubts about his account. Though many people found it possible to believe that one person could record 45 hours with a device hidden under a couch, the existence of 700 hours suggests a much more complex operation.
Shvets is blunt about the logistics. "Melnichenko may have done some recordings himself toward the end of the operation," he said. "But an entire team had to be involved in this, and they had to have high political protection."
He says certain Ukrainian oligarchs spearheaded the operation to blackmail Kuchma for their own ends. "But things got out of control, and we got the recordings," he said.
The situation has become so convoluted that parliamentary speaker Volodymyr Lytvyn early last month became the first high-ranking Ukrainian official to call for all of the recordings to be made public.
"There are political forces in Ukraine who don't want the truth to be known," Lytvyn, whose voice figures in the recordings, told BBC. "But we need to hear about everyone who was in the president's office -- those who were in power and those that were secretly influencing them."
Відповіді
2002.12.16 | Shooter
LA Times: суцільна сontroversy
>"I would lose contacts with opposition politicians and journalists if they knew it was me," said a Kiev reporter, who used a pseudonym on a recent article on the recordings. "Everyone thinks journalists have to take sides. So if you question Melnichenko, you must be a Kuchma apologist.">But Ukrainian journalist Olexi Stepura, who has prepared painstaking transcripts of the purported originals on the 45-hour CDs, contends that Melnichenko's transcripts were of the recordings edited by the Sound Forge program, which removed entire sentences from the original recordings.
>None of the edits deal with Gongadze, but Stepura says: "They do suggest that Melnichenko has not listened to the recordings and is unaware of the discrepancies."
Кажеш, мед на ізранєную душу? Не один Піня "замєтіл рвєніє"?
І хто ж той "замаскований журналіст"? Невже не Степура?
Чи замаскований Степура повинен створювати масовку для Степури із відкритим забралом?
>Shvets, Zhyr and Melnichenko are former KGB agents.
Брехня. Швець - формер КҐБ агент, Мельниченко - можливо, Жир - кадровий (донедавна) офіцер служби безпеки.
Одним словом, суцільна сontroversy.
2002.12.16 | Peter Byrne
сontroversy? it's actually quite clear
pust' ukrainska nepravda perevedet i napechataet stat'yu.vse 'oppozitsionery' khotyat verit' vo chto to - komu to - oni slepy i ne slushayut zapisi.
bednye, bezpomoshchnye, beziskhodnye.
2002.12.16 | Augusto
Я нібуду їх слушат!
Ані ніпанятна какім магнєтафоном запісаліс! Ганьба! В тюрму!2002.12.16 | Yeast Infection
Re: сontroversy? it's actually quite clear
Dear Mr. Byrne,I repeat the message I posted some time ago. I would be happy to get the answers to my questions.
Here is the previous post:
"Dear Mr. Byrne,
Thanks so much for your reply. I appreciate your opinion.
> the tapes are authentic. the tapes are real.
That statement sounds pretty reasonable. The feeling of authenticity is pretty robust.
> voices belong to the speakers (often incorrectly) identified and transcribed.
In your opinion, is Kuchma identified correctly in most cases? If not, what is the % of error, in your opinion? (And in this case, do you have any typical examples?)
> edits are obvious, but most conversations appear unredacted.
As far as Kuchma's voice is concerned, do any of the possible edits change critically the essence of the things said?
> listen yourself and tell me what you think.
Personally, I don't care too much (so far), who and how made the records. I am neither a journalist, nor a politician. I am just a curious listener of the 'Melnychenko tapes'. I think those recordings, if proven to be authentic, will comprise a very serious heritage for the future generations.
Yours truly,
y.i.
P.S. I am confused, about a heated debate between you and other true beleivers in the authenticity of those 'tapes'"
2002.12.16 | Augusto
Маша не вилазить з Київа вже десять років.
myciomar@ipc.kiev.uaЦе її е-мейл в Київі, пописує як фріленсер до ЛА-Тайм (за рівнем хоча б цієї статті один з таблоїдів, ІМХО), це дає їй формально право зватися "журналіст", пороху явно не видумає, одна з інтуристів, що страшно сильно працювали над розбудовою Кучмоїни, якою вона стала.
Вона невтомно підіймає рівень кучмаїнської журналістики до того рівня, яким ми його знаєм.
"Mary Mycio von der Irex ProMedia Group, einer US-Nichtregierungsorganisation, die die Arbeit der ukrainischen Journalisten auf westliche Standards hieven will..."
Ukraine
IREX has had an on-the-ground presence in the Ukraine since the opening of its Kyiv office in 1992. IREX has since expanded into 25 other cities across Ukraine. IREX activities in Ukraine focus on academic exchanges, university strengthening, building independent media, Internet development, and local alumni programming. Please see below for more details.
Її е-мейл адреса знаходиться тут:
Інформаційний прес-центр - українська громадська організація, що сприяє розвитку вільної преси в Україні. Діяльність організації здійснюється за підтримки Міжнародного фонду "Відродження" та в співпраці з Національною спілкою журналістів України .
Програма правового захисту та освіти ЗМІ
при IREX ПроМедіа
запрошує журналістів, редакторів та юристів, що представляють ЗМІ звертатися до нас
- з інформацією про порушення свободи слова, судові процеси проти журналістів, ЗМІ;
- за отриманням безкоштовних юридичних консультацій з проблем, пов’язаних з виконанням професійних обов’язків та захисту прав журналістів (Юридичні консультації надаються тільки при наявності необхідних документів (оскаржені матеріали - публікації чи радіо-, телепередачі, письмові претензії/вимоги, позови, рішення та ухвали суду і т.і.));
- за попередньою оцінкою статей чи фотоматеріалів на можливі правові наслідки (порушення честі й гідності в т.ч.).
Дзвоніть до нас в Києві:
тел. 461-9748,тел/факс 461-9749,e-mail: legal@ipc.kiev.ua
Надсилайте юридичні документи до ПроМедіа за адресою:
Печерський узвіз, 3, 2-й поверх, Київ 252023
Для чого вам потрібна допублікаційна юридична експертиза?
Чи знаєте Ви що:
Допублікаційна юридична експертиза (ДПЮЕ) ваших матеріалів на можливі правові наслідки не є цензурою.
Це лише правничий прогноз можливих наслідків для ЗМІ і автора і порада, як їм запобігти.
ЗМІ в передових демократіях світу, включаючи США, користуються ДПЮЕ щодо всіх матеріалів, знаючи що свобода слова також несе відповідальність.
Називаючи особу, функціонуюче підприємство, державну установу в статтях чи в теле\радіо передачах, ви наражаєте себе на ризик бути відповідачем по справі за позовом про захист честі, гідності та ділової репутації і\або за позовом про захист від втручання в приватне життя.
В Україні існують спеціалізовані юристи, що полюють за ЗМІ. Вони переглядають ВСІ газети й теле\радіо передачі, знаходять матеріали, що порочать чиюсь честь і гідність чи втручаються в їхнє приватне життя, і тоді підбурюють цих осіб подавати в суд за відшкодуванням моральних збитків.
Якщо проти Вас виникне судова справа, ДПЮЕ може бути доказом відсутності у Вас злого умислу на розповсюдження недостовірної інформації.
Якщо власник змушує ЗМІ подавати політично заангажований матеріал, ДПЮЕ допоможе помякшити чи нівелювати можливі негативні правові наслідки.
Програма Правового Захисту та Освіти ЗМІ (ППЗО) при ІRЕХ ПроМедіа існує лише до кінця вересня 1999. Піддання допублікаційній юридичній експертизі проектів деяких Ваших матеріалів за участі фахівців Програми допоможе Вам оволодіти досвідом по уникненню правових проблем в майбутньому, коли Програми не буде.
Звертайтеся до Програми Правового Захисту та Освіти ЗМІ
при IREX ПроМедіа За Допублікаційною Юридичною Експертизою
P.S. IMHO Слизький, темний фрукт.
2002.12.16 | AST
Re: LA Times: суцільна сontroversy
> Кажеш, мед на ізранєную душу? Не один Піня "замєтіл рвєніє"?Мене і раніше цитували в західній пресі. Не тільки про записи. Наприклад, в журналі Time під час передвиборчої кампанії. Там я висловлювався в підтримку Тимошенко. Так що Піня тут зовсім ні до чого.
Взагалі ти мусиш пишатись тим, що я особисто посилав тебе нахуй на форумі. :-))
2002.12.17 | Shooter
Пішов в пизду!
Тепер ти в нас запишений.2002.12.17 | Shooter
І ще бальзам для ізранєного Степури
ВР поддержала запрос Г.Крючкова к Премьеру относительно реагирования правительства на недружественные высказывания Посла США в УкраинеВерховная Рада Украины поддержала запрос народного депутата, члена КПУ Георгия Крючкова к Премьер-министру Виктору Януковичу относительно реагирования правительства на недружественные высказывания Посла США в Украине, - передает корреспондент Центра "ЛИГА".
LIGA ONLINE
2002.12.17 | Йванко
США ПОЧИНАЮТЬ РОЗУМІТИ...........
США ПОЧИНАЮТЬ РОЗУМІТИ, ЩО СУМНІВНІ ЗВИНУВАЧЕННЯ НА АДРЕСУ УКРАЇНИ ЗАВДАЛИ ШКОДИ ДВОСТОРОННІМ ВІДНОСИНАМ - ЗАСТУПНИК ГЛАВИ АПКиїв. 17 грудня. УНІАН. Сполучені Штати Америки починають розуміти, що сумнівні звинувачення на адресу України (щодо продажу радарних установок в Ірак - УНІАН) завдали дуже значної шкоди не лише Україні, але й двостороннім відносинам України та США.
Як передає кореспондент УНІАН, про це сказав заступник глави Адміністрації Президента, керівник головного управління з питань зовнішньої політики АП Анатолій ОРЕЛ, коментуючи сьогодні на брифінгу публікацію в газеті "Лос-Анджелес Таймс".
За словами А.ОРЛА, ця публікація свідчить, що "не тільки нам, але й міжнародній громадськості стає все більш очевидно, що це провокація проти України, проти Президента України", що вона "була шита білими нитками".
Як сказав А.ОРЕЛ, йдеться про те, "що ця система звинувачень проти України і проти Президента базується на дуже й дуже сумнівних фактах, видобутих сумнівним шляхом і дуже сумнівними особами".
Україна і міжнародна спільнота розуміють, що за цю провокацію "заплатили дуже велику ціну", і тому, за словами А.ОРЛА, "дуже приємно, що зараз вже і в США починають розуміти, що це нанесло дуже значну шкоду не тільки Україні, але і нашим двостороннім відносинам із США".
Говорячи про перспективу українсько-американських відносин, А.ОРЕЛ підкреслив, що "ці відносини обов'язково будуть розвиватися, тому що не в інтересах наших країн згортання цих відносин". За його словами, українсько-американські відносини базуються на спільних цінностях, і тому він не бачить "ніяких причин, щоб ці відносини згорталися".
2002.12.17 | Englishman
Апогей кретинизма...
С каких это пор АП Кучмы принимает личную точку зрения некоей Маринки, живущей в Киеве м подрабатывающую публикациями в региональной американской газете, за официальную позицию правительства США? They must be really desperate...2002.12.17 | Shooter
Special'ne povidomlenn'a dl'a ASTa
http://www.globeandmail.com/servlet/GIS.Servlets.HTMLTemplate?current_row=2&tf=tgam/search/tgam/SearchFullStory.html&cf=tgam/search/tgam/SearchFullStory.cfg&configFileLoc=tgam/config&encoded_keywords=Kuchma&option=&start_row=2&start_row_offset1=&num_rows=1&search_results_start=1&query=KuchmaBydlo Vasil'jev kazhe
Presidential aide Sergei Vasiliev said the administration considers the Kolchuga tapes to be forgeries concocted by elements within the U.S. government that would like to see Mr. Kuchma ousted and replaced with the pro-Western opposition leader, former prime minister Viktor Yuschenko.
The recordings, Mr. Vasiliev points out, were not made on a simple dictaphone, but were done with high-tech digital equipment over hundreds of hours. If they're legitimate, he suggested, they were done by someone much more skilled than the president's ex-bodyguard.