rewriting the story
02/27/2003 | peter byrne
He sits with his back to the wall in the smoky depths of a Ukrainian cafe in the seedy streets of New York’s Brighton Beach – Little Russia. He seems to be looking at you but his beady little eyes dart constantly to the door to scrutinize each new face as it enters. On one occasion a complete stranger enters and he quickly leaves.
He is Mykola Melnychenko, the target hunted by a hit team of investigative journalists from Ukraine who want him to reveal why, how and if he recorded conversations about the murder of a journalist, arms deals and other crimes.
It’s been almost two years since the former guard fled to the United States leaving behind hundreds of hours of recordings made inside the inner sanctum of President Leonid Kuchma.
Melnychenko said then that he had secreted a tiny digital recorder inside the presidential office for over a year, capturing enough explosive material to detonate a time bomb under Kuchma and his closest men.
The high-profile murder Georgy Gongadze in the fall of 2000 prompted U.S. National Security Adviser Condoleezza Rice last March to publicly warn Kyiv that "we are certain this case will affect the climate of Ukrainian-U.S. relations, therefore we insist we provide political and technical assistance to ensure an open investigation".
Gongadze ran a small independent Internet newspaper Ukrainska Pravda in which he frequently attacked Kuchma and his policies.
Evidence of an obvious bungling emerged when BBC spoke to Oleksandr Bahanets, the nation’s deputy prosecutor, who headed the investigation into the Gongadze murder under Kuchma’s personal direction.
Stiff, brown-suited and unsmiling, this apparatchik became irritated with questions about the failure, after more than a year, for his investigation to make even first base. Here is the best evidence of his progress:
"How did Gongadze die?"
"We do think he was murdered."
"Where did he die?"
"This is not known."
"From what you are telling us, after one year of investigation, you don’t seem to know how Gongadze died, where he died, why he died or who killed him?"
"Regrettably not all crimes are solved, not only in Ukraine but in other countries too, including your country … Man is not omnipotent. But we shall solve this crime."
Time will tell. But no bookmaker would give odds on success. The prosecutor suddenly revealed that he has actually made quite a bit of progress in one important direction, namely that there is no evidence whatsoever "of the involvement of top state officials in the murder".
"But what about the evidence on the recordings?"
"It is illegal to record conversations without a strictly established procedure (therefore) these recordings cannot be admitted as evidence."
So that’s it then.
An amiable Kuchma was appropriately flabbergasted when challenged about the recordings. He claimed that they had probably been edited or faked beyond recognition.
"Mr. President, let’s assume that some of the tapes are accurate, they seem to show on occasions a spiteful, vindictive and paranoid administration, obsessed with political and journalistic enemies. How did you feel when you looked into the tapes and read the transcripts?"
"I only listened to the bits which have been made public in parliament," he replied airily, then went on to reject the implications in our question and added more thoughtfully, "I never issued orders to persecute any newspaper, TV channel or journalist." Indeed, the tapes don’t catch him issuing orders, just wondering aloud who might deal with the turbulent priests of independent thought and persuasion who stalk the nation.
Back in New York’s Little Russia, Melnychenko, hunched into his coat, spoke elliptically and for the first time to BBC about illegal arms exports to Iraq.
“The allegations involved in the sale of missile parts for nuclear warheads to Bagdad,” BBC Correspondent Tom Mangold said.
Mangold subsequently received so-called evidence of Kuchma talking to Valery Malev, general director of UkrSpetsEksport, the official Ukrainian arms-export agency, about a $100 million sanctions-busting deal to sell four units of highly sophisticated radar to Iraq.
The first signs of real panic over the arms deals came when an emissary from Kyiv arrived in the United States and sent a message to the major.
Mangold said Melnychenko and his permanently-present bodyguard met the man in a cafe in Washington. The Ukrainian emissary offered Melnychenko (who is penniless) $6 million never to reveal the Iraq connection publicly, $15 million if the recordings ended up at the bottom of the Potomac. The major declined the offer.
Melnychenko turned over by hand the chip containing the Kolchuga recording to retired FBI voice analyst Bruce Koenig on April 8, 2002.
Two retired KGB agents took custody the device and recording after Koenig completed his analysis. They refused, however, to return the chips or the recorder to Melnychenko.
“When Koenig returned me the chips, he sealed them all, and they remain sealed. I have never opened them,” one said. “This was done with the specific purpose that later on the chips could be shown in court as the material evaluated.”
A conflict emerged after the men learned that Melnychenko was secretly recording their conversations in the United States.
“I wouldn’t call these people politicians, but garbage,” responded Melnychenko. “They represent themselves as ‘fighters for democracy’ but use the situation for personal gain.”
Both former agents today refer to Melnychenko as “the idiot” because of his incompetent handling of the affair.
After receiving a portion of the recordings, the men founded the Site 5element.net in September 2002.
In addition to releasing the full 10-minute Kolchuga recording and a conversation absolving Kuchma in Gongadze's murder, 5element.net. The Site also published another recording about Iraq, a conversation, dated June 22, 2000, between Kuchma and then Secret Services chief Leonid Derkach.
Edited out of this conversation, however, is an important passage showing that the Central Intelligence Agency was well aware of Ukraine’s dealings with Iran and Iraq.
Derkach told Kuchma in the conversation that the CIA officials visited Kyiv to discuss the matter on June 18, 2000.
“They’re worried about Iraq and Iran,” Derkach told Kuchma, “And about our dealings on missile technology….”
The exchange took place two weeks after President Bill Clinton’s visit to Kyiv and two weeks before the Kolchuga conversation.
U.S. officials, including U.S. Ambassador to Ukraine Carlos Pascual, said in September 2002 that three U.S. agencies had authenticated the voice of Kuchma in the Kolchuga recording.
“This should put an end to speculation over the authenticity of the recording,” Pascual said on Nov. 25, 2002 in Kyiv. He added that that the U.S. government has possession of the original recording device.
But on the very same day, 5element.net published a photograph proving that they – not Melnychenko or the United States – own the so-called evidence.
It showed the Melnychenko’s digital recorder and the chip lying on the front page of The Washington Post.
Introduction to an epilogue
Steven Pifer, the State Department’s deputy assistant secretary for European Affairs, said in Washington on Feb. 14 that Kuchma’s alleged approval of the sale of passive radar systems called Kolchuga to Iraq would not block a robust agenda of bilateral reform initiatives.
Pifer, addressing a foreign policy briefing hosted by the Center for Strategic and International Studies, said the Kolchuga scandal is an issue “we will put in a box” so as not to further cloud relations.
During the speech, Pifer acknowledged the past few months have been the most difficult and complex period for the U.S. Ukraine relationship since Ukraine declared independence in 1991.
“The U.S. government has just completed a major review of our policy towards Ukraine,” he said. “The question before us now is how to move forward? What is the way forward for the U.S. Ukraine relationship?”
Ukraine’s ambassador to the United States, Kostyantyn Hryshchenko, also attended the briefing. He responded to Pifer’s remarks by saying Ukraine would like to have the issue resolved because Ukraine did not sell Kolchugas to Iraq.
The impression that relations between Kyiv and Washington are getting back to normal was confirmed following a meeting between Kuchma and U.S. Ambassador to Ukraine Carlos Pascual in Kyiv on Feb. 17.
“The United States is no longer insistent and is taking a more flexible stance on this scandal,” Foreign Ministry spokesman Oleksandr Horkov told a press briefing on Feb. 18.
During their meeting, Kuchma and Pascual discussed Ukrainian U.S. cooperation aimed at Ukraine’s admission to the World Trade Organization and the Iraq crisis, Presidential Administration spokeswoman Olena Hromnytska told Interfax Ukraine.
U.S. and British suspicions that Kuchma arranged to sell a passive radar system called Kolchuga to Iraq were based on the authentication of a recording allegedly made in the president’s office in July 2000.
In early 2002, former presidential guard Mykola Melnychenko turned over to Bruce Koenig, a retired FBI voice analyst, a recording chip containing a 90 second excerpt of a conversation recorded in the president’s office on July 10, 2000.
Melnychenko, who won refugee status in the U.S. in April 2001, says he recorded hundreds of hours of conversations implicating Kuchma in crimes ranging from illegal arms sales to the murder of opposition journalist Georgy Gongadze, election rigging and fraud.
“This is not the kind of information you can put in a box, put on a shelf and wait for it to go away,” U.S. Ambassador to Ukraine Carlos Pascual said in Kyiv on Sept. 27, 2002.
During a press conference in Kyiv on Feb. 19, Curt Weldon, a visiting member of the House Armed Services Committee, however, suggested the situation should be seen in a different light.
Weldon said the U.S. government “has no evidence that Ukraine delivered the Kolchuga or other military technology to Iraq.”
The Foreign Ministry has yet to analyze the motives prompting the U.S. to back down on the Kolchuga issue, said Yury Serheyev, state secretary at the Foreign Ministry, in answer to a question from a member of the public during the Cabinet’s weekly call in show.
“As a rule, the side that starts a scandal without grounds is usually the one that finds a way to soften it,” Serheyev said.
He is Mykola Melnychenko, the target hunted by a hit team of investigative journalists from Ukraine who want him to reveal why, how and if he recorded conversations about the murder of a journalist, arms deals and other crimes.
It’s been almost two years since the former guard fled to the United States leaving behind hundreds of hours of recordings made inside the inner sanctum of President Leonid Kuchma.
Melnychenko said then that he had secreted a tiny digital recorder inside the presidential office for over a year, capturing enough explosive material to detonate a time bomb under Kuchma and his closest men.
The high-profile murder Georgy Gongadze in the fall of 2000 prompted U.S. National Security Adviser Condoleezza Rice last March to publicly warn Kyiv that "we are certain this case will affect the climate of Ukrainian-U.S. relations, therefore we insist we provide political and technical assistance to ensure an open investigation".
Gongadze ran a small independent Internet newspaper Ukrainska Pravda in which he frequently attacked Kuchma and his policies.
Evidence of an obvious bungling emerged when BBC spoke to Oleksandr Bahanets, the nation’s deputy prosecutor, who headed the investigation into the Gongadze murder under Kuchma’s personal direction.
Stiff, brown-suited and unsmiling, this apparatchik became irritated with questions about the failure, after more than a year, for his investigation to make even first base. Here is the best evidence of his progress:
"How did Gongadze die?"
"We do think he was murdered."
"Where did he die?"
"This is not known."
"From what you are telling us, after one year of investigation, you don’t seem to know how Gongadze died, where he died, why he died or who killed him?"
"Regrettably not all crimes are solved, not only in Ukraine but in other countries too, including your country … Man is not omnipotent. But we shall solve this crime."
Time will tell. But no bookmaker would give odds on success. The prosecutor suddenly revealed that he has actually made quite a bit of progress in one important direction, namely that there is no evidence whatsoever "of the involvement of top state officials in the murder".
"But what about the evidence on the recordings?"
"It is illegal to record conversations without a strictly established procedure (therefore) these recordings cannot be admitted as evidence."
So that’s it then.
An amiable Kuchma was appropriately flabbergasted when challenged about the recordings. He claimed that they had probably been edited or faked beyond recognition.
"Mr. President, let’s assume that some of the tapes are accurate, they seem to show on occasions a spiteful, vindictive and paranoid administration, obsessed with political and journalistic enemies. How did you feel when you looked into the tapes and read the transcripts?"
"I only listened to the bits which have been made public in parliament," he replied airily, then went on to reject the implications in our question and added more thoughtfully, "I never issued orders to persecute any newspaper, TV channel or journalist." Indeed, the tapes don’t catch him issuing orders, just wondering aloud who might deal with the turbulent priests of independent thought and persuasion who stalk the nation.
Back in New York’s Little Russia, Melnychenko, hunched into his coat, spoke elliptically and for the first time to BBC about illegal arms exports to Iraq.
“The allegations involved in the sale of missile parts for nuclear warheads to Bagdad,” BBC Correspondent Tom Mangold said.
Mangold subsequently received so-called evidence of Kuchma talking to Valery Malev, general director of UkrSpetsEksport, the official Ukrainian arms-export agency, about a $100 million sanctions-busting deal to sell four units of highly sophisticated radar to Iraq.
The first signs of real panic over the arms deals came when an emissary from Kyiv arrived in the United States and sent a message to the major.
Mangold said Melnychenko and his permanently-present bodyguard met the man in a cafe in Washington. The Ukrainian emissary offered Melnychenko (who is penniless) $6 million never to reveal the Iraq connection publicly, $15 million if the recordings ended up at the bottom of the Potomac. The major declined the offer.
Melnychenko turned over by hand the chip containing the Kolchuga recording to retired FBI voice analyst Bruce Koenig on April 8, 2002.
Two retired KGB agents took custody the device and recording after Koenig completed his analysis. They refused, however, to return the chips or the recorder to Melnychenko.
“When Koenig returned me the chips, he sealed them all, and they remain sealed. I have never opened them,” one said. “This was done with the specific purpose that later on the chips could be shown in court as the material evaluated.”
A conflict emerged after the men learned that Melnychenko was secretly recording their conversations in the United States.
“I wouldn’t call these people politicians, but garbage,” responded Melnychenko. “They represent themselves as ‘fighters for democracy’ but use the situation for personal gain.”
Both former agents today refer to Melnychenko as “the idiot” because of his incompetent handling of the affair.
After receiving a portion of the recordings, the men founded the Site 5element.net in September 2002.
In addition to releasing the full 10-minute Kolchuga recording and a conversation absolving Kuchma in Gongadze's murder, 5element.net. The Site also published another recording about Iraq, a conversation, dated June 22, 2000, between Kuchma and then Secret Services chief Leonid Derkach.
Edited out of this conversation, however, is an important passage showing that the Central Intelligence Agency was well aware of Ukraine’s dealings with Iran and Iraq.
Derkach told Kuchma in the conversation that the CIA officials visited Kyiv to discuss the matter on June 18, 2000.
“They’re worried about Iraq and Iran,” Derkach told Kuchma, “And about our dealings on missile technology….”
The exchange took place two weeks after President Bill Clinton’s visit to Kyiv and two weeks before the Kolchuga conversation.
U.S. officials, including U.S. Ambassador to Ukraine Carlos Pascual, said in September 2002 that three U.S. agencies had authenticated the voice of Kuchma in the Kolchuga recording.
“This should put an end to speculation over the authenticity of the recording,” Pascual said on Nov. 25, 2002 in Kyiv. He added that that the U.S. government has possession of the original recording device.
But on the very same day, 5element.net published a photograph proving that they – not Melnychenko or the United States – own the so-called evidence.
It showed the Melnychenko’s digital recorder and the chip lying on the front page of The Washington Post.
Introduction to an epilogue
Steven Pifer, the State Department’s deputy assistant secretary for European Affairs, said in Washington on Feb. 14 that Kuchma’s alleged approval of the sale of passive radar systems called Kolchuga to Iraq would not block a robust agenda of bilateral reform initiatives.
Pifer, addressing a foreign policy briefing hosted by the Center for Strategic and International Studies, said the Kolchuga scandal is an issue “we will put in a box” so as not to further cloud relations.
During the speech, Pifer acknowledged the past few months have been the most difficult and complex period for the U.S. Ukraine relationship since Ukraine declared independence in 1991.
“The U.S. government has just completed a major review of our policy towards Ukraine,” he said. “The question before us now is how to move forward? What is the way forward for the U.S. Ukraine relationship?”
Ukraine’s ambassador to the United States, Kostyantyn Hryshchenko, also attended the briefing. He responded to Pifer’s remarks by saying Ukraine would like to have the issue resolved because Ukraine did not sell Kolchugas to Iraq.
The impression that relations between Kyiv and Washington are getting back to normal was confirmed following a meeting between Kuchma and U.S. Ambassador to Ukraine Carlos Pascual in Kyiv on Feb. 17.
“The United States is no longer insistent and is taking a more flexible stance on this scandal,” Foreign Ministry spokesman Oleksandr Horkov told a press briefing on Feb. 18.
During their meeting, Kuchma and Pascual discussed Ukrainian U.S. cooperation aimed at Ukraine’s admission to the World Trade Organization and the Iraq crisis, Presidential Administration spokeswoman Olena Hromnytska told Interfax Ukraine.
U.S. and British suspicions that Kuchma arranged to sell a passive radar system called Kolchuga to Iraq were based on the authentication of a recording allegedly made in the president’s office in July 2000.
In early 2002, former presidential guard Mykola Melnychenko turned over to Bruce Koenig, a retired FBI voice analyst, a recording chip containing a 90 second excerpt of a conversation recorded in the president’s office on July 10, 2000.
Melnychenko, who won refugee status in the U.S. in April 2001, says he recorded hundreds of hours of conversations implicating Kuchma in crimes ranging from illegal arms sales to the murder of opposition journalist Georgy Gongadze, election rigging and fraud.
“This is not the kind of information you can put in a box, put on a shelf and wait for it to go away,” U.S. Ambassador to Ukraine Carlos Pascual said in Kyiv on Sept. 27, 2002.
During a press conference in Kyiv on Feb. 19, Curt Weldon, a visiting member of the House Armed Services Committee, however, suggested the situation should be seen in a different light.
Weldon said the U.S. government “has no evidence that Ukraine delivered the Kolchuga or other military technology to Iraq.”
The Foreign Ministry has yet to analyze the motives prompting the U.S. to back down on the Kolchuga issue, said Yury Serheyev, state secretary at the Foreign Ministry, in answer to a question from a member of the public during the Cabinet’s weekly call in show.
“As a rule, the side that starts a scandal without grounds is usually the one that finds a way to soften it,” Serheyev said.
Відповіді
2003.02.27 | peter byrne
Re: rewriting the story
Паскуаль: США передали Киеву перечень вопросов, которые помогут обезопасить пилотов над ИракомУП , 2.10.2002, 19:10, обновлено в 20:50
В связи со скандалом вокруг возможной продажи "Кольчуги" США передали в Киев перечень вопросов, которые помогут установить факт наличия радаров у Саддама. Вопросы привезла заместитель госсекретаря США Елизабет Джоунс. "Украинская сторона сказала, что обязательно даст ответ", - сообщил посол США Карлос Паскуаль. Он и рассказал журналистам подробности полусекретных переговоров, которые состоялись во вторник и среду в Киеве.
Из ответов Украины Штаты должны получить информацию, которая бы "позволила лучше защитить американских и британских пилотов, которые патрулируют зону ограниченных полетов над Ираком", сообщил посол США.
В то же время посол не стал рассказывать детали и даже не назвал количество вопросов: "Мы сошлись с представителями украинского правительства в том, что будем работать на определенном уровне конфиденциальности, чтобы обеспечить эффективность этой работы". Вместе с тем он сказал, что проблемы заключаются "не только в существующих системах "Кольчуга", однако не стал развивать эту тему.
Говоря о сроках предоставления официальным Киевом ответов, Паскуаль сказал: "Украинская сторона заверила, что она намерена предоставить нам эту информацию. Они сказали, что именно в их интересах прояснить этот вопрос как можно быстрее".
Паскуаль также сказал, что во время встречи было согласовано, что в Украину приедет группа экспертов. Сроки еще не определены, в состав делегации будут входить представители нескольких агентств, среди них - эксперты с соответствующими знаниями в военной и технической отраслях.
По словам посла, сейчас идет обсуждение того, к какой информации, материалам и объектам они будут иметь доступ, и с кем они смогут здесь пообщаться.
Паскуаль отметил, что Елизабет Джоунс во время визита в Киев представляла Белый дом и возглавляла делегацию, которая состояла из представителей Совета национальной безопасности, Госдепартамента, Министерства обороны и Объединенного комитета начальников штабов.
Записи
Еще один интересный момент - как вообще эпизод о "Кольчугах" оказался у Госдепартамента США.
"В первую очередь мы прочитали расшифровку разговора между президентом Кучмой и господином Малевым, которая появилась в ряде публикаций приблизительно в марте этого года. И тогда стало сразу понятно, что нам нужно серьезно начать беспокоиться по поводу содержания этой расшифровки – из-за опасности, которую может нести в себе этот факт [продажа "Кольчуги"] для жизни американских и британских пилотов. Мы сообщили украинскому посольству в Вашингтоне, когда мы обратились с соответствующим запросом. Мы также проинформировали украинское посольство в Вашингтоне и украинские власти здесь, когда получили результаты анализа".
По словам посла, запрос делал не непосредственно Государственный департамент, а "структура американского правительства". И в руках этой неназванной структуры находится оригинал записи.
Паскуаль также рассказал, что они получили фрагмент о "Кольчуге" не в рамках расследования Большого жюри по делу Лазаренко. "Это был отдельный запрос".
Еще один вопрос - что Паскуаль знает о других эпизодах, которые могут содержать неоднозначные факты: "Сам господин Мельниченко сказал, что он получил от Министерства юстиции требование предоставить записи в рамках расследования дела Лазаренко. Имеет ли Министерство юстиции в своем распоряжении другие записи, изучает ли оно их - я не знаю".
Санкции
Паскуаль рассказал, что США пока не применяли к Украине санкции. "Есть только пауза на выделение новых средств, которые уходили в распоряжение правительства. Подавляющее большинство нашей помощи продолжает предоставляться".
Однако параллельно с этой "паузой" США уже начали "официальный пересмотр политики [относительно Украины], в котором участвуют разные правительственные агентства".
По мнению Паскуаля, доказательства того, что Украина не продавала "Кольчугу" - это "достаточно сложное дело, и это может занять достаточно длительный период времени". Из-за этого, по словам посла, его "коллегам в Вашингтоне" придется решать: продолжать ли пересмотр политики до окончания расследования, или на каком-то этапе учесть в пересмотре уже достигнутые результаты.
"Законы США запрещают предоставление помощи странам, которые поставляют военное оборудование в Ирак. В то же время в законах есть условия, при которых этот принцип не применяется. Как будут интерпретироваться эти законы, будет решать в конечном итоге государственный секретарь".
По его мнению, в случае, если продажа подтвердится, все равно может возникнуть вопрос: нужно ли продолжать помогать неправительственным организациям Украины, или, например, развивать обменные программы. "Это должны рассматривать эксперты, аналитики, и мне неудобно делиться предположениями", - отметил он.
Паскуаль также напомнил, что кроме мер со стороны США также существуют санкции ООН.
Американцы же будут рассматривать вопрос помощи, учитывая два фактора. Первый - как сохранить взаимодействие с Украиной и помощь ей на пути трансформации в демократическое рыночное государство. Вторая цель заключается в том, чтобы "послать сигнал другим странам, что им не следует рассматривать какие-либо возможности передачи поставок оборудования и материалов в Ирак".
2003.02.27 | игор
probachte
http://www.guardian.co.uk/armstrade/story/0,10674,903743,00.htmlExport of arms criticised
Richard Norton-Taylor
Thursday February 27, 2003
The Guardian
The government is promoting arms sales to nations with poor human rights records because these countries are useful allies in the fight against terrorism, according to an independent study published today.
The countries include Uzbekistan, Turkmenistan and Kyrgyzstan, which provided bases and other help in the military campaign against Taliban and al-Qaida forces in Afghanistan.
The government is also encouraging weapons sales to countries which have supplied Iraq; these countries include Ukraine, the source of 380 rocket engines recently smuggled into Iraq and destined for the Samoud-2 missile, which is now the focus of a dispute between Baghdad and UN weapons inspectors.
[...]
2003.02.27 | peter byrne
touche
davajte ne budem ob ehtom pisat'http://www.globalsecurity.org/org/news/2003/030215-blixreport01.htm
Threat of war: Analysis: UN Inspectors' report
Blix:
"The experts concluded that the two declared variants of the Samoud 2 missile were capable of exceeding 150km in range. [...] On the matter of the 380 SA-2 missile engines imported outside of the export/import mechanism, inspectors were informed by Iraq during an official briefing that these engines were intended for use in the Samoud 2 missile system, which has now been assessed to be proscribed. Any such engines configured for use in this missile system would also be proscribed."
Mr Blix's language when he mentioned that Iraq had imported 380 missile engines - known to be from Ukraine - for the Samoud-2 system was firm but calm, observers noted.
2003.02.27 | Игор
Re: touche
http://www.ourjerusalem.com/news/story/news20010715a.html[...]Following the collapse of international arms inspection in Iraq, it is expected that the regime of Saddam Hussein will renew its efforts to develop long range ballistic missiles.
These assessments received further credence lately with news of attempts by Iraq to buy several dozen missile engines in storage in the Ukraine.[...]
2003.02.27 | Игор
Re: touche
http://www.ourjerusalem.com/news/story/news20010715a.html[...]Following the collapse of international arms inspection in Iraq, it is expected that the regime of Saddam Hussein will renew its efforts to develop long range ballistic missiles.
These assessments received further credence lately with news of attempts by Iraq to buy several dozen missile engines in storage in the Ukraine.[...]
2003.02.27 | Aye Caramba!
Man, this is bad writing
This is some of the cheesiest writing I've read in a long time--melodramatic, cliched, and shamelessly partisan (amiable Kuchma and idiot Melnychenko, yeah that's showing some critical distance, all right). It completely muddles the issue of arms sales. It is also unethical to quote people you have never interviewed yourself (i.e. Melnychenko).After a year of muttering about this under your breath, this is your best shot?
peter byrne пише:
> his beady little eyes
> a hit team of investigative journalists from Ukraine
> An amiable Kuchma was appropriately flabbergasted
AMIABLE KUCHMA? APPROPRIATELY FLABBERGASTED?
> Both former agents today refer to Melnychenko as “the idiot” because of his incompetent handling of the affair.
> Edited out of this conversation, however, is an important passage showing that the Central Intelligence Agency was well aware of Ukraine’s dealings with Iran and Iraq.
> Derkach told Kuchma in the conversation that the CIA officials visited Kyiv to discuss the matter on June 18, 2000.
> “They’re worried about Iraq and Iran,” Derkach told Kuchma, “And about our dealings on missile technology….”
"aware" and "worry" are two different verbs and have different meanings. what Derkach says and what the CIA knows are two different things
2003.02.27 | strunk&white
Re: Man, this is bad writing
are turning in their graves...But what can one expect from someone who can't even write a coherent forum posting and seems incapable of using fancy writing techniques like, uh, paragraphs?2003.02.28 | peter byrne
Re: Man, this is bad writing
you win the booby prize!this is shortened version of what tom mangold and the bbc wrote in march for the age in australia.
the film turned out to be cheezier.
smooch,
peter
2003.02.28 | Мертві Бджоли Загудуть
Peter Byrne is the greatest guy of all!
Peter Byrne, he's got an exquisite sense of irony.Please continue your great work and Qchma will never forget you. He'll be begging to suck on a piece of your glorious dick.
Hey, mate, let's go for the Waltzing Matilda' booty prize!
And remembah, that Fostah'zee ostrahylien foh bieah.
2003.02.28 | Игор
Мертві Бджоли Загудуть
http://www.theage.com.au/articles/2002/03/30/1017206160002.htmlKilling the story
By Tom Mangold, Ewa Ewart
March 30 2002
what goes around comes around.
http://www.pravda.com.ua/ru/archive/2003/february/27/news//13.shtml
what the cheezy bbc boobs missed:
In addition to releasing the full 10-minute Kolchuga recording and a conversation absolving Kuchma of Gongadze's murder, 5element.net also published another recording about Iraq, a conversation, dated June 22, 2000, between Kuchma and then Secret Services chief Leonid Derkach.
Edited out of this conversation, however, is an important passage showing that the Central Intelligence Agency was well aware of Ukraine’s dealings with Iraq.
Derkach told Kuchma in the conversation that the CIA officials visited Kyiv to discuss the matter on June 18, 2000.
“They’re worried about Iraq and Iran,” Derkach told Kuchma, “And about our dealings on missile technology….”
The exchange took place two weeks after President Bill Clinton’s visit to Kyiv and two weeks before the Kolchuga conversation.
U.S. officials, including U.S. Ambassador to Ukraine Carlos Pascual, said in September 2002 that three U.S. agencies had authenticated the voice of Kuchma in the Kolchuga recording.
“This should put an end to speculation over the authenticity of the recording,” Pascual said on Nov. 25, 2002 in Kyiv. He added that that the U.S. government has possession of the original recording device.
But on the very same day, 5element.net published a photograph proving that they – not Melnychenko or the United States – own the so-called evidence.
It showed the Melnychenko’s digital recorder and the chip lying on the front page of The Washington Post.
smooch!
2003.02.28 | peter byrne
leave Мертві Бджоли Загудуть ALONE
(Missile experts finish analysis for UNMOVIC)February 14, 2003
http://usembassy.state.gov/islamabad/wwwh03021404.html
The UNMOVIC chief has already told the council that Iraq imported missile engines for the al-Samoud 2 and raw material for the production of solid missile fuel in spite of the arms embargo imposed on Baghdad by the Security Council after the Gulf War.
http://www.foxnews.com/story/0,2933,78347,00.html
Last month, Blix reported that despite an arms embargo, Iraq had imported 380 rocket engines for the al-Samoud 2 as well as chemicals used in propellants, test instruments, and guidance and control systems.
The Iraqi delegation was led by Brigadier General Naim Bakr Ali, head of Iraq’s Scud missile-guidance program. With him were two officials from Iraq’s Missile Research and Development Centre, and rounding out the team were Brigadier General Safa from Ibn Al-Haytham, Iraq’s largest missile-manufacturing site, and Major Raad from Al-Karama State Establishment, another such site.
In Ukraine, Orshansky, Ayzenberg, and Naim executed a "protocol"–amounting to an outline of future cooperation–that promised Iraq the keys to a trove of missile technology. Ukraine would sell guidance components for surface-to-surface missiles, help Iraq develop batteries of the latest anti-aircraft missiles, provide equipment for missile research, and even establish a college to train missile experts. To get things started, Iraq asked for price quotes on a test stand for rocket motors, a series of gyroscopes and accelerometers for missile-guidance systems, and high-precision machine tools for making missile parts.
Under questioning, General Naim later claimed that the deal was supposed to take effect only after the embargo was lifted, and hence did not violate UN resolutions. However, the agreement expressly stipulated that it would come into effect "from the moment it [was] adopted by the governments of Ukraine and Iraq"–that is to say, almost immediately. (Both Naim’s superior and the Ukrainian cabinet approved the deal in 1994.) General Naim also claimed that Iraq intended to work only on missiles that could fly under 150 kilometres, permitted under certain UN resolutions. But an appendix to the agreement described a system for "separating the warhead from the bus"; only long-range missiles, which Iraq is not permitted to possess, have warheads that are separated during flight from the rocket engine (or bus).
In November 1994, General Naim led another Iraqi delegation to Ukraine [and] signed a second protocol as ambitious as the first. Khartron was now to provide four different types of missile guidance, two of them for separable warheads. Iraq has always sought independence in missile production, and so the second protocol, like the first, took into account the ability to manufacture. Ukraine agreed to supply laboratories, a wind tunnel, computer software, technical assistance, and training. For developing guidance systems themselves, Iraq would get raw materials, a production line for key parts, testing equipment, and a "clean room" to allow assembly of delicate parts in an atmosphere free of dust or dirt. Iraq would also get a production line to build rocket engines, plus equipment to test the engines.
All in all, Orshansky would travel to Iraq at least six times between 1993 and 1995, and Iraq would send at least four delegations to Ukraine. But under questioning by the UN inspectors, General Naim claimed that Iraq had never actually received a single import. "No deals were ever finalized, no money was ever transferred, and not one penny was made" by the company he had set up to handle the missile deals. The inspectors, who concluded that Naim "was rarely honest," did not believe his story. More likely by far is that Iraq received some of the Ukrainian equipment it tried so hard to buy, and that the equipment is in use today.
As it turned out, moreover, Orshansky was offering more than just missiles. The inspectors found a 300-page file detailing an illegal February 1995 deal for Russian Mi-17 helicopters and Su-25 fighter planes–military hardware that the embargo unquestionably banned–as well as engines and guidance systems for remotely-controlled drones. The drones were every bit as disquieting an item as the planes; they could be used to deliver poison gas or germ-warfare agents.
Only this past April, according to a news report from Kiev, more than 100 Ukrainian companies, including makers of space and aviation gear, displayed their wares at a Baghdad trade exhibition.
http://www.aijac.org.au/review/2001/268/irqshop.html
While Iraqi delegations were signing contracts in Ukraine, they were also signing them in Romania, in some cases for similar equipment. The main place of interest in Romania was Aerofina, a military firm that Iraqis had visited even before the Gulf war. In February 1994, a group of missile experts returned to Aerofina to ask for help with liquid-fuelled missiles. This trip led to still further visits; in January 1995, experts from the Ibn Al Haytham and Al Karama missile sites signed a contract with Aerofina for 250 sets of missile-engine parts that Iraq could not produce itself. Some of these parts arrived in Iraq around September 1995.
http://www.iraqwatch.org/search/view_record.asp?sc=suppliers&id=406
Supplier: Khartron
Exporting Country: Ukraine
Company/Individual: Khartron
Also Known As:
Program: Missile, Military
Date Occurred: 1993-1994
Activity Memo: Signed a protocol with Brigadier Naim Bakr Ali, head of Iraq’s Scud missile guidance program, in November 1994 under which Khartron was to provide four different types of missile guidance, two of which were for separable warheads; worked with Iraqi scientists on a number of specific missile guidance problems, according to an Iraqi scientist; exhibited long- range guidance systems to an Iraqi delegation; agreed to supply laboratories, a wind tunnel, computer software, technical assistance and training for missile development; also agreed to provide raw materials, a production line for key parts, testing equipment, and a "clean room" for assembling missile guidance components; also agreed to supply a production line for building rocket engines, plus equipment to test the engines and their sub-assemblies; the extent to which these agreements were implemented is unknown; signed a protocol in November 1993, along with Ukraine’s Yuri Orshansky, that promised to sell guidance components for surface-to-surface missiles, to help Iraq develop batteries of the latest anti-aircraft missiles, to provide equipment for missile research, and even to establish a college to train Iraqi missile experts; the protocol’s appendix also described a system for "separating the warhead from the bus," which would only be needed for long range missiles, proscribed by UNSCR 687; according to an Iraqi general, the Ukrainian Cabinet of Ministers approved the protocol in 1994; asked by Iraq for price quotes on a rocket motor test stand, a series of gyroscopes and accelerometers for missile guidance systems, and high-tech machine tools for making missile parts; along with Ukraine’s Montelect, wrote to the Iraqi Minister of Oil offering electronic systems, sophisticated telecommunications instruments, satellites and air defense equipment in exchange for oil futures, according to a letter dated 20 October 1993 that was found by UNSCOM at Iraq’s Al Baraem site.
2003.03.12 | острог
брешете
this is shortened version of what tom mangold and the bbc wrote in march for the age in australia.Не скорочена версія, а спотворена. Стаття Mangold тут:
http://www.theage.com.au/articles/2002/03/30/1017206160002.html
2003.02.28 | peter byrne
Re: rewriting the story
http://www.byrne.bigmir.net/dis2.htmpust' serheyev zapisi proslushayut
smooch!
МИД Украины отвергает обвинения в поставках в Ирак ракетных двигателей
Киев. 28 февраля. ИНТЕРФАКС-УКРИАНА - Украина отвергает опубликованные газетой "Гардиан" обвинения в поставках в Ирак ракетных двигателей к ракетам "Ас-Самуд-2".
Об этом заявил госсекретарь украинского МИД Юрий Сергеев в пятницу в пресс-клубе МИД, отвечая на вопросы журналистов.
"Такие обвинения невозможно рассматривать иначе, как очередную попытку переложить на наше государство ответственность за действия тех, кто действительно причастен к нарушениям режима санкций в отношении Ирака", - подчеркнул он.
Госсекретарь также сообщил, что такие двигатели в Украине никогда не производились.
"Указанные двигатели никогда не производились, кроме того, существующая система экспортного контроля делает невозможным несакционированный транзит такого количества двигателей через территорию Украины", - добавил он.
Ю.Сергеев также подчеркнул, что Украина придерживалась и продолжает придерживаться всех соответствующих резолюций Совета Безопасности ООН в отношении Ирака.
"Обидно, что такое известное издание, как "Гардиан", в погоне за дешевыми сенсациями разменивается свои авторитетом", - сказал Ю.Сергеев.
13:42:21 EET-2
2003.03.13 | SS
Re: rewriting the story
Як повідомило російське Радіо "Маяк" за його даними, Кучма допомагає переховувати іракську неконвенційну зброю в українських танкерах. Танкери під різними прапорами , зате власність України.Не виключено що така зброя переховується і на самій території України. Києву слід чекати делегацію військових інспекторів ООН?